Conlangery #71: Ogami (natlang)

12 comments on “Conlangery #71: Ogami (natlang)”

1. Pete Bleackley on October 15, 2012 at 9:08 am said:

   I’d just like to inform David that his [ɔ] and his [ɒ] are audibly distinct.

   Reply ↓
   • David J. Peterson on October 17, 2012 at 3:35 am said:

     Like heck they [ɔ]!

     Reply ↓
     • Kenneth N on October 17, 2012 at 6:04 am said:

       What is [ɔ] supposed to represent?

       Reply ↓
       • admin on October 17, 2012 at 8:50 am said:

         Mid back rounded lax (or [-ATR]) vowel. Although, I will say I think English [ɔ] throws me off partly because, at least the way linguists say it when making an example, there’s not that much rounding to it.

         Reply ↓
         • Kenneth N on October 18, 2012 at 11:08 am said:

           I tried to understand what word it would represent in the sentence in question: “Like heck they [ɔ]”

           The one I could think of is “Like heck they awe”, “Like heck they or”, “Like heck they ore”, and possibly one or two more – neither of which seems to make much sense.
       • MBR on October 18, 2012 at 10:58 pm said:

         Probably a non-rhotic “are”.

         Reply ↓
         • Kenneth N on October 19, 2012 at 5:28 am said:

           I was thinking that to, but I think [ɔ] – short, mid-open and rounded – would be a very strange realisation.

           I was just afraid there may had been some pun that I missed…
2. Avjunza on October 17, 2012 at 8:21 am said:

   Just a quick translation from my most recent project, Jtaraectozoru [tɕɐɹaɪktɔtsɔɹʉ].

   Rac jojsajs cacôgejton nu tumajnoe jaesajs jtapon. Tâ jaesajs raegen côro tumajnoe jtamen. Tâ cos catjon côro tâtae cohoc hacan.
   [ ɹɐk jɔɕɐɕ kakɔ̞̃ŋitɕɔn nʉ tʉmaɲɔɪ jaɪsɐɕ tɕapɔn. tɐ̃ jaɪsɐɕ ɹaɪŋɛn kɔ̞̃ɹɔ tʉmaɲɔɪ tɕamɛn. tɐ̃ kɔs katɕɔn kɔ̞̃ɹɔ tɐ̃taɪ kɔhɔk hɐkɐn. ]

   A man went into a cave because he thought there were bats there. He looked inside and there were no bats. He went home and told his son.

   Reply ↓
   • David J. Peterson on October 23, 2012 at 5:44 am said:

     HA! I love it!

     Reply ↓
3. Roman Rausch on October 18, 2012 at 6:55 pm said:

   1. Syllabic fricatives in Ogami did indeed come from voiceless vowels. Long ones came from voiceless vowels in two consecutive syllables. We were actually discussing this on the list recently:
   http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1209c&L=conlang&F=&S=&P=5392
   2. The pear story is a film which was shown to native speakers who were then asked to describe the events in their own words:
   http://lingdy.aacore.jp/PearStory/contents/e_about_pear_story.htm
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRNSTxTpG7U
   CGI wasn’t as good at the time of shooting 40 years ago, otherwise I’m sure they would have included a child-eating snake monster of some kind. It still could have had a punchline, though.
   3. I’m quite certain that the Ogami nominative nu is cognate to the Japanese genitive no. This development is understandable when looking at subordinate clauses: In Japanese, sentences like [kimi ga] yuku miti ‘[lord GEN] go road’ (the road that my lord goes) were reinterpreted as [kimi ga yuku] miti ‘[lord NOM go] road’, with the genitive ga becoming nominative. Ogami seems to have done the same with the other genitive marker no, keeping ka (from ga) as genitive.
   You can easily see that /e/ and /o/ were raised to /i/ and /u/ in Ogami throughout by comparison to Japanese (which is also why the vowel system became so unbalanced).
   4. Check out this recording of a native speaker:
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBnM6pdwZGQ
   The syllabic fricatives are actually quite seamless.

   Reply ↓
   • David J. Peterson on October 23, 2012 at 5:46 am said:

     Guess I missed this discussion on Conlang-L. Thanks for the detailed info!

     Reply ↓
4. The Weevil on October 31, 2012 at 4:35 am said:

   I agree with David J Badgerson that the story needed more serpent demon.

   Reply ↓